T.K.O vs Surge
“Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.”
-Oscar Wilde
Turbo Kaio Kincaid, the manifestation of K.O’s negative and feelings of powerlessness from OK KO Lets Be Heroes
Surge The Tenrec, the mean green sparky machine with no past from Sonic The Hedgehog
Bitterness, anger, the lingering question of who we are and why we are here, lays on the minds of everyone. The lack of purpose, and feeling beholden to the whims of others without an identity of your own. This is something these two combatants have experienced, as both were created by brilliant scientists in order to serve their plans to conquer their worlds, and today we’ll see who can win in a Death Battle!
Hol on….
For T.K.O I’ll be focusing on the primary canon for OK KO, that would be the show obviously, and the minisodes, Crossover Nexus and Let’s Meet Sonic will be discussed in detail later. For Surge, since IDW is canon to the games, Surge will receive the games, IDW, and all other canonical Sonic media.
References :
My original Surge vs Spinel Blog
Blaze vs Starfire blog
Goten vs K.O Blog
Connections:
Connections
Both are dark counterparts to cheerful, optimistic heroes who embody hope and friendship (T.K.O. is the embodiment of K.O.'s suppressed anger and negative emotions unleashed by Venomous, and Surge was engineered by Dr. Starline to become a replacement and superior version of Sonic.)
Both were effectively created rather than naturally born in their current forms (T.K.O. emerged from K.O's psyche as a separate personality, and Surge was physically and mentally altered by Starline through experimentation and memory manipulation.)
Both spent much of their stories believing they existed to be better than their heroic counterparts (T.K.O. constantly sought to dominate K.O. and take control, and Surge became obsessed with proving she could surpass Sonic.)
Both are fueled by intense anger (T.K.O. literally embodies K.O.'s rage and oftentimes seeks vengeance against Venoumous for creating him, and Surge's entire worldview is built upon resentment toward Sonic, Starline, and the world around her)
Both struggle with identity crises (T.K.O. questions whether he is merely part of K.O. or his own individual, and Surge struggles with the revelation that much of her personality and memories were artificially manufactured.)
Both lash out at the world because they feel trapped by circumstances beyond their control (T.K.O. resents being imprisoned inside K.O, and Surge resents learning that her life was manipulated from the very beginning.)
Both initially reject the power of friendship and emotional connection.
Despite this, both secretly desire acknowledgment and understanding.
Both have deeply personal rivalries with heroes who are essentially their opposites (T.K.O.'s conflict is with K.O, and Surge's conflict is with Sonic.)
Their rivalries are not based on simple hatred but on questions of identity (T.K.O. asks whether K.O. can truly accept every part of himself, and Surge asks whether Sonic's ideals actually work when someone has been irreparably damaged.)
Both repeatedly challenge their counterpart's worldview (T.K.O. forces K.O. to confront his negative emotions, and Surge forces Sonic to confront situations where his usual optimism may not immediately solve the problem.)
Both were heavily shaped by forces outside their control.
Both spend significant portions of their stories trying to break free from the role they were assigned (T.K.O. refuses to remain a locked-away part of K.O, and Surge refuses to remain Starline's weapon.)
Both eventually realize that simply destroying the source of their pain doesn't automatically give them purpose.
A major part of both stories involves learning they are more than what they were created to be.
Both gradually move away from pure villainy (T.K.O. eventually works alongside K.O, and Surge slowly becomes more morally complicated than a straightforward antagonist.)
Both develop into anti-heroes who still possess their aggressive personalities but become capable of cooperation.
Neither character fully loses their edge (T.K.O. remains cocky, aggressive, and confrontational, and Surge remains abrasive, rebellious, and prone to violence.)
Their development centers on finding a place in the world without abandoning who they are.
Both are incredibly fast and aggressive combatants.
Both rely on overwhelming offensive pressure rather than defense.
Both possess powers that visually and narratively represent chaos (T.K.O.'s dark energy attacks and destructive power, and Surge's electrically-charged abilities and unstable bursts of speed.
Both often fight recklessly because they believe raw power will solve their problems.
Both are capable of matching or overwhelming opponents who are normally considered elite fighters within their worlds.
T.K.O.'s story is ultimately about acceptance (He learns he can coexist with K.O.) and Surge's story is about independence (She seeks to define herself apart from Sonic and Starline.)
T.K.O. originates from within the hero (He’s not only literally part of K.O, he is K.O), and Surge originates from outside the hero (She was created to imitate and replace Sonic.).
T.K.O. eventually finds peace through integration (Becoming one with K.O. allows both to grow) and Surge's journey focuses on self-determination (She wants to become something entirely her own.)
Background
Turbo Kaio Kincaid
Oh, give me a break, K.O. None of this stuff you've made me changes the fact that this is K.O.'s world, and I'm just living in it!
Kaio Kincaid, better known as K.O is our young plucky protagonist from the series OK KO Lets Be Heroes! K.O aims to become a powerful hero, like his idol Mr. Gar and his mother Carol. On his path to become a hero, he begins working at Gar’s Bodega alongside he best friends Rad and Enid, and battles against the forces of evil, including against the evil Lord Boxman and his robot children.
However, despite being a capable young hero at his age, K.O often dealt with feeling powerlessness, especially compared to his friends, and often wanted to gain power faster. These negative feelings were buried deep down within himself, with only hints of what was to come.
On one fateful day, after a humiliating defeat from Darrel, and feeling dejected from the words of his friends, K.O would meet Shadowy Figure, who would offer to teach K.O how to achieve true power, to do this he’d need to harness all his pent up negative emotions,all the rage he felt he felt for feeling weak, and the pain he felt from the words of his friends, and release it. Through this, his negative emotions and anger would take form, and manifest a new powerful persona, T.K.O.
T.K.O was the opposite of K.O, unlike his heroic half, T.K.O was loud and abrasive, he was not simply K.O’s opposite but the embodiment of K.O’s internal struggles, frustration, and feelings of inadequacy. These feelings would cause him to rampage across the plaza, and hurt his friends but eventually he was stopped by K.O. However, K.O sought to control his darker half, with the help of his friend Dendy, which would lead to their confrontation with Boxman Jr., at first K.O relied on T.K.O to defeat his foe, but soon they would form a compromise to defeat Boxman Jr., T.K.O would lend K.O his power, in exchange for freedom within K.O’s mind.
However, T.K.O would soon grow discontent, and depressed with this arrangement. He sought revenge against Shadowy Figure for creating him, forcing him to live within K.O’s mind, and in K.O’s world. While T.K.O would continue to support K.O, these feelings would reach a boiling point, when K.O allowed T.K.O to have control of their body, he would wreck his house and the neighborhood. Feeling betrayed, K.O would lock T.K.O back into his subconscious, fueling T.K.O’s anger and resentment, that when he was released once again by Shadowy (who turned out to be their father Venemous) T.KO would join them in their quest to destroy the universe, and depower everyone on the planet. However, through the words of his mother through song, K.O would calm T.K.O down, and finally accept the truth. T.K.O wasn’t just a part of K.O, he was K.O, and K.O was him. Finally accepted by his other half, K.O and T.K.O would merge, becoming M.K.O, someone finally at peace with both sides of himself.
Surge The Tenrec
You don't get it! I was built to live in your shadow. It's in my blood, my bones, my brain. There is no freedom for me...NOT WHILE YOU'RE STILL ALIVE!
Dr. Starline was tired. Tired of the constant battles between his idol, the maniacal mad scientist Dr. Eggman, and the world renowned hero Blue Blur, Sonic The Hedgehog. Believing this constant battle between good and evil was stifling the evolution of the world, dubbing it the “Sonic Cycle”, Starline would begin Operation: Remaster.
A plan to conquer the world by controlling its hero-villian dynamics. While initially planning to use robots, Starline would realize that power and obedience would mean nothing in a world full of chaos and unpredictability.
He would decide to take things further by harnessing the will and ingenuity of a living being and fuse them with his initial designs. He would acquire two regular citizens, and outfit them with cybernetic enhancement, one in particular would receive the bio-data of Neo Metal, Shadow, and Sonic himself. This would lead to the creation of Surge the Tenrec, born to replace Sonic The Hedgehog.
Surge and her fellow cybernetically enhanced ally, Kit (made to replace Tails), would be subjected to multiple tests by Starline to prepare themselves for their roles, however soon Surge would become fed up with this. Starline would continue to erase their memories, but soon she and Kit would soon catch on to this.
Surge and Kit would eventually find Starline’s video logs and would discover the truth. Starline had subjected them to hypnotic sessions where Starline imprinted them with fake, intense hatred for Sonic and Tails, to replace them.
Moreso, using codes from Belle, he would overwrite Surge and Kit's existing personalities with fabricated ones, allowing him to control their thoughts, memories and desires, alongside making them susceptible to hypnosis. Angered by this, Surge would decide to destroy every hero and villain, present and future, if they can’t have a past, no one gets to have a future.
They would play along with Starline’s plan, and use him so they could confront Sonic and Tails, they’d even get the chance to battle and defeat Metal Sonic. Eventually, Kit would battle Tails, and Surge would get the chance to confront Sonic herself. She would reprimand Sonic for not killing his enemies.
As they battle, she would tell him that she would end it all, as it was what they deserved, unfazed, Sonic explained that he had been in situations with those who were wronged by the world and wanted to destroy it before, Surge would claim that this was who she was, and while Sonic understood this; however, since he did not know her story, he was not in much of a position to judge and preferred to give Surge a second chance.
Surge believed this to be naivety, but Sonic explained that he lives for the moment, he enjoys its thrills and adventures, and wished for everyone to have the same freedom he has; if he ended Surge's life, she would not have the chance to do so.
Surge, however, seeing that she probably did not have much of a life in the world before being outfitted with cybernetics, Surge still saw herself as an outcast. As such, she agreed that she had the freedom to do whatever she wanted.
Sonic would acknowledge her choice to do this, but would state that he would stop her if she tried to steal others freedom, he would stop her. Surge would try to end Sonic, but found herself dangling from the edge of a chasm, instead of accepting Sonic’s help, she would zap him and fall into the chasm with debris falling onto her.
Surge would survive however, and would take Eggman’s Dynamo Cage, using its power to challenge Sonic again. However, it would cause her to hallucinate Starline, belittling her, though Kit would be there to comfort her.
Surge would also take the Wisp from Whisper, to fuel it and her power, and fight Sonic once more. Having learned of her past, Sonic would plead with her to take her freedom, due to the fact that Starline had died in an encounter with Eggman. Tearfully she would proclaim she couldn't, not till Sonic was dead, she would attempt to electrocute Sonic to death, but the Cage would overload, knocking her out.
Kit would take Surge, saving her from Metal and Eggman. Surge and Kit would take residence in one of Starline’s Bases, eventually being approached by Clutch The Opossum to bring down The Restoration. Initially, Surge and Kit were down to do this, but overtime after spending time with the Restoration, and even getting praise during a race and being looked up by people for fighting against The Phantom Rider, especially by a little girl. Surge decided to do things differently, finally embark on a better path, the path…of a hero.
Experience
T.K.O
For the short time he existed, T.K.O caused quite a storm, he effortlessly one-shotted a Giant Darrel, defeated Radicles and Enid with little issues, and over the course of the series only got stronger. T.K.O could go toe to toe with Boxman Jr., who easily defeated K.O, Rad, Enid, Mr. Gar, and Carol.
Then when he and K.O were in perfect sync, they were able to defeat Shadowy Figure, and later on T.K.O defeated every hero in the plaza, Boxman and his fused robot children, and finally, Shadowy Venomous.
T.K.O is also an excellent fighter, blending overwhelming power with equally overwhelming speeds.
Surge
Surge is quite the capable fighter, outfitted with the bio-data of Sonic, Shadow, and Neo will ensure that. She was trained by Starline rigorously to battle tons of Eggman robots so that she could one day surpass Sonic, Starline even made sure she could perfectly emulate Sonic combat profile.
Because of this, Surge can match seasoned fighters, including Sonic, being able to match him blow for blow, even leaving him tired.
Moreso, while Surge may not be book smart, she’s quite clever in battle, she’s shown the ability to be able to outsmart Sonic in battle, and even tricked him into attacking her so she could steal the device concealing his identity.
Equipment
T.K.O
Gun
Ow, the edge.
Surge
Extreme Gear
Surge has her own Extreme Gear in the form of a bike. These types of Extreme Gear, while having a harder time turning and maneuvering, and less fuel-efficient, are more powerful than the board type, and are designed to slam through obstacles without slowing down.
The Dynamo Cage
The Dynamo Cage, was created by Doctor Eggman, and allows Surge to absorb energy from any object, like Chaos Drives, and Wisps. Even gaining Wisp abilities once she absorbs them. However, it can overload, especially with the way Surge uses it. Furthermore, the Cage boosted her already powerful abilities, and allowed her to defeat foes who previously matched her, through the Wisps she was able to make shields, beams of energy, spikes, and missiles.
Abilities
T.K.O
To note, T.K.O is K.O, and vice versa, while also sharing the same body. T.K.O should be, and shown to be capable of the same abilities as K.O. Which is why abilities K.O has demonstrated that T.K.O hasn’t will be counted.
Power Fist
Both K.O and T.K.O main special move, with the Power Fist, T.K.O can fire off energy attacks in the form of a fist. He can fire multiple rapid fired Power Fist, and even fire off gigantic ones as well.
Flight
As seen above T.K.O can fly at super speed.
Time Slow
An ability K.O and Carol have demonstrated an ability where their perception of time slows down and moves faster than everyone around him. He has only shown this once in order to save his mother however, and it is unknown whether he can control it on whim.
Energy Manipulation
T.K.O has the ability to manipulate and control energy. He can cover his fist in energy, create energy shockwaves that can knock back foes, create a barrier, energy waves to that can cut through metal, and form an aura.
Energy Absorption
T.KO can absorb the energy from Glorbs which can increase his power (more on that later), and can absorb the attacks from his foes, including Enid’s.
Disempowerment
T.K.O can create domes of energy that he can build up, that can create a dome-shaped field of energy that has the power to enervate its victims and nullify their powers, towards the end of the episode he gains the ability to fire blast of energy to disempower his foes, and kill them.
Fourth Wall Awareness
K.O is aware that he’s a cartoon character, and was able to interact with black bars, jump out of a scene, and even see outside of the camera.
Toon Force
As said by The President of The Universe, Glorbs are an energy source which give the people of OK KO their unique powers and abilities, furthermore, they are responsible for “fun”, specifically their the reason for the characters toon force, everyone has this energy within themselves, for example, Rad was reduced to a skeleton and ash, blown away, and K.O is fine being melted into a puddle.
K.O can interact with his thoughts and crumple it like paper, morph into a ball, move his camping materials with a snap of his fingers, shapeshift, and teleport into space with a snap. T.K.O has absorbed quite a bit of Glorbs, including the ones from the Glorb Tree.
Accasuality
K.O can remember the events of an altered timeline.
Non Physical Interaction
K.O can interact with his thoughts, and even his very soul. In fact he can survive without his soul.
Surge The Tenrec
Cybernetic Enhancement
Dr Starline outfitted Surge and Kit with impressive cybernetics, Surge possesses a multitude of powers derived from Power Cores, Surge contains the bio-data of Sonic, Shadow, and Neo Metal Sonic.
He also provided cellular upgrades from the Metal Virus, giving her tremendous durability allowing her to take a beating from the Egg Breaker with little more than bruises, furthermore, Surge implies Starline gave her some kind of healing factor.
Super Speed
Unsurprisingly, due to her backstory and nature as a Sonic Character, Surge has Super Speed, but unlike many others, she owns her claim to speed. She was specifically made to rival the heavy hitters in this category, including Sonic.
She can cause Sonic Boom’s, create whirlwinds,and fight evenly with the top tiers of speed like Metal, Blaze, and Sonic, matching them blow for blow, even able to outmaneuver/out smart Sonic. Surge claims that she can move at the speed of light, which considering the scaling chain, is probably true.
Electrokensis
Due to Starline hardwiring electromagnetic propulsion in her body, Surge's most well-known ability is her power to control and manipulate electricity. She has the ability to generate electricity of varying intensity and project it as small lightning bolts or sparks.
Surge can generate enough electricity to ignite flora, cause various electricity-powered devices to overload, surround herself with an aura of electricity to attack her enemies.
Spin Dash
A variant of the Spin Attack, which Surge can perform, The Spin Dash is where the user blasts forward with a revved-up Spin Attack from a stationary position. As seen above, Surge can combine her Spin Dash with her electrokinesis power.
Homing Attack
This technique allows the user to swerve while in midair, automatically zeroing in and striking a nearby enemy with a midair Spin Attack. As with the Spin Dash, Surge can coat her in electricity.
Tornado Attack
With her powers, Surge can become like a Tornado, and quickly dash towards her opponents for a fast attack.
Feats
T.K.O
Overall
Saved the Plaza from Giant Darrel
Defeated The Heroes of Lakewood Plaza Turbo
Found out the truth of his existence
Was able to cooperate with K.O for a time
Defeated K.O multiple times
Succeded in absorbing The Glorb Tree
Became accepted by his other half, and became one person, M.K.O
Power
T.K.O destroyed a Giant Darrel with enough power to destroy the plaza
T.K.O and K.O was able to power up Plazamo, and reflect a disempower blast from a Point Ship at full power
Was able to be multiple heroes in the tournament, which include Rad and Enid in their own Turbo Forms, and Mr. Gar and Carol
T.K.O split the sun in half (DEBATABLE)
Absorbed all the glorbs from the tree, in fact, it was all for Shadowy Venomous plan to destroy the universe (More on this later)
The roots of this spread across the entire planet
Speed
T.K.O splits the sun in half (158,895,866 m/s)
T.K.O could keep up with Rad and Enid
Durability
As seen above he could endure a blast from Boxman Jr.
Survives a beating from the fused Boxman Robots, and being launched back to Boxmore
Endures blows from Turbo Rad and Enid, and being smashed by a giant fist from Enid
Surge
Overall
Outfitted with Sonic, Shadow, and Neo Metal bio-data
Defeated multiple Badniks
Defeated Metal Sonic
Held her own against Sonic
Defeated Eggman and stole his device
Held her own against Metal and Sonic
Nearly killed Sonic
Possibly on the path of a hero
Power
Her training required her taking on multiple Badniks and Super Badniks
Cause a tiny spark to become a large fire that would have burned a forest
With Kits help beats and subdues Metal Sonic
Breaks through a metal structure
Holds her own against Metal Sonic and Sonic, even using Metal to launch Sonic and eventually knocks the Metal Faker out
Almost kills Sonic with The Dynamo Cage
Speed
Surge regularly keeps up with and trades blows with Sonic as seen above
Durability
Gets smashed by the Egg Breaker and left with nothing but meaningless bruises
Survives getting overloaded with energy from Tails electronics
Survives the overloading of Wisp energy from The Dynamo Cage
Scaling
T.K.O
K.O
Generally T.K.O is stronger than his other half, especially when, due to their deal in Your’re in Control, in every battle he’s in, K.O is channeling T.K.O power, so T.K.O easily scales to anything K.O does.
K.O destroys the planet, now while this is an outlier since it’s in the intro, K.O did it again in the series finale (208.1 Ronnatons of TNT)
K.O. slide kicked around the whole planet in 7 seconds. (0.019c)
K.O. blasted a pow fist to the moon which created a massive dust cloud. (119 Zettatons of TNT)
K.O. and Enid both were unharmed by falling into a black hole. (0.252 FOE)
K.O held up every hero in The Plaza and used them to defeat Big Darrel who was lvl 100
Heroes
T.K.O has consistently been shown to be, outside The President of The Universe, to be the top dog of his verse. He has defeated every major hero of the series, including Dendy, his mother, Rad, Enid, Foxtail, and Mr. Gar. So he should reasonably scale to every hero in the series.
Enid with her space bike dragged a moon at high speed
This same bike also traveled across the galaxy to reach Planet X. (286 Billion c)
Rad destroys a mountain and makes it into a statue of himself. (269-838 Megatons of TNT)
Mr Gar elbowed Boxman so hard he saw the curvature of the planet
Dendy was unharmed by a car crash which totally destroyed the bodega.
Dendy recreated the opening herself. (208.1 Ronnatons of TNT)
The Moon managed to restore himself after being blown up. (29.63 Exatons of TNT)
Cool Sun is a star. (0.12 FOE)
The Sun also ate the moon. (29.63 Exatons of TNT)
Rippy Roo has a galaxy inside her pouch. (10.53 ZettaFOE, see before the verdict)
Rippy Roo’s pouch is described as “four dimensional.” (Universal+, Debatable)
Villians
Considering T.K.O awesome might, the fact he’s beaten the likes of Boxman and Venomous (including his Shadowy form), and the fact K.O and Enid could harm Cosma, scaling should be more than fine.
Several Darrell units came together and launched Boxman to the sun in 9 seconds. (56c)
Boxman would survive this and later flew back from the sun in about 2 seconds. (251c)
Jethro has a setting which lets him move at the speed of light.
Mega Jethro backed into the Boxmore factory, triggering a massive explosion, destroying the whole place. (249 Kilotons of TNT)
Shannon could evade electrical blasts from Dynamite Watkins.
Lord Boxman can survive the destruction of the entire Boxmore factory, which in one episode filled the entire atmosphere with smog and melted the polar ice caps in seconds. (968 Zettatons of TNT)
Alongside Dendy, all the robots + Boxman got punched by T.K.O. so hard it split the sun in half. (160.22 FOE, DEBATABLE)
In the finale, Venomous and Fink were given a planet all to themselves just to destroy. (59.51 Zettatons of TNT)
Cosma blew up the moon (29.63 Exatons of TNT and 2.7c)
Due to Cool Sun’s reaction, it is implied she could do the same to him (136 Quettatons of TNT)
Cosma grew large enough to eat entire planets (91.6 Yottatons of TNT)
Garnet
Generally I don’t do crossover scaling, unless it’s absolutely necessary, and that’s why I won’t be including scaling from the likes of Ben 10 and Raven, and definitely not Sonic. Furthermore, scaling to other CN properties also won’t be included, however Garnet will be used for reasons I’ll get into later.
Garnet could resist the force exerted by a planet sized black hole (63.5 million metric tons)
Garnet intercepted Steven mid-warp travel (5.8 Trillion FTL)
Garnet could keep up with a robot who could jump between galaxies (7-86 Billion FTL)
Surge
Sonic
Surge was outfitted with the Bio-Data of Sonic and Surge has battled Sonic more than once. Holding her own quite well, even coming close to killing him. Not only that, she’s shown the ability to outsmart and get one over the Blue Blur.
Fought Dark Gaia in base form who broke open the planet and was much stronger (7.2 yottatons of TNT)
In Sonic Prime, dodges beams that are referred as lasers (17030c) (Debatable)
Sonic can dodge and outspeed Cyan Lasers, which can move at light speed (2.3c)
Sonic overclocks the SPD meter in Sonic Unleashed (11.42c)
Sonic broke the chain link connected to Little Planet (3.282 teratons of TNT)
Defeated Master Core Abis, who could create black holes (6.5 FOE)
Sonic beat Emerl who was powered by the Final Egg Blaster, a machine that is capable of destroying numerous stars in a single shot. (5.7 ExaFOE)
The Final Egg Blaster reaches a star cluster in seconds (6 billion c to 60 billion c)
Sonic survived the explosion of the Paradox Prism, which shattered the universe (Debatable)
Metal, Shadow, and Blaze
Surge was also outfitted with Bio-Data from Shadow and Neo Metal Sonic. In their first fight, Surge with Kit’s help was able to defeat Metal, and in their second encounter, she was able to fight him and Sonic on her own. While Surge has never personally encountered Shadow in a fight, given how equal Sonic and Shadow are, and the fact Shadow beat Metal Sonic twice, Surge should at the very least downscale, this same reasoning is why Surge should scale to Blaze as well.
Sonic and Metal destroy a massive stalactite (200 Kilotons TNT)
Blaze charges forward as a fireball causing debris to fly around in the air
Blaze can match Sonic’s Boost in power, and can even beat him
Weakness
T.K.O
T.K.O values strength above anything else, he doesn't really think when it comes to combat, he’s a punch first, ask question later type of guy. Furthermore, he can be quite cocky during his battles, which can leave him open to attacks and becoming quite rageful. Finally depending on how far T.K.O takes his aggression, K.O (also depending on what time in the story) can interfere with T.K.O mind, and with enough pressure, he can force T.K.O back into their subconscious.
Surge
Surge is a great fighter, but she has some serious flaws. Surge is also, all action, no plan. While she is willing to listen to others' (mainly Kit) ideas from time to time, she prefers to go in guns blazing, which can lead her into trouble. Due to her past trauma as well, she’s prone to intense anger, and even though her cage was overloading, she continuously used it, even though it was hurting her just so she could kill Sonic. Due to Starline meddling, she is susceptible to hypnosis though she has showings of powering through it.
Before The Verdicts
OK KO & CROSS SCALING
As you’re well aware,OK K.O had two prominent crossovers during the show’s run. The first being Crossover Nexus, in said episode K.O teamed up with Garnet, Raven (TTG), and Ben (Reboot) to defeat Strike who's going around stealing the powers of CN characters. The other crossover was with Sonic himself, so should we include cross scaling with these series?
Well starting with Sonic, the answer is no. The Sonic we meet in OK KO: Let’s Meet Sonic, does remember and experience events from Sonic 2 and SA2, but he also remembers events from the Mario and Sonic games, and it’s implied that he also experienced events from Archie Sonic. So yeah, we shouldn’t include Sonic scaling.
As for Cartoon Nexus, we don’t have any clear idea if the characters Strike captured are the main universe version of these characters. What I mean, is that while canon to OK KO, we don’t know if it’s canon to all these CN properties, like Adventure Time, Billy and Mandy, and Regular Show, and it’s not canon to Teen Titans Go!.
The only reason why Garnet is being included is for two reasons, Ian JQ (OK KO Creator) worked on Steven Universe and is married to Rebecca Sugar, the creator of OK KO, and Garnet also appeared in the series finale to help K.O save the multiverse. That is the only reason why I’m including her.
THAT ONE FEAT
This feat is a bit contentious, but let’s break it down. In the episode Let’s Fight To The End, T.K.O gets into a scuffle with the fused Boxman robots, with Dendy and Lord Boxman riding on top of them. In this fight as you see above, T.K.O punches them so hard that they end up flying into the sun, splitting it in half.
Sounds pretty straightforward right? But here’s the thing, this feat occurred after T.K.O absorbed all the glorbs from The Glorb Tree, a tree whose roots spread across the entire planet. This is why it’s contentious, specifically if T.K.O would’ve achieved this feat without absorbing the glorbs, especially when an episode prior, he lost to the Boxman robots fused, and they didn’t even have Jethro at the time.
But I do think this feat is fine, here’s the reason why. One, everytime T.K.O absorbs glorbs he never has a moment where he seems to lose the power, or even grow tired. If anything, with each appearance he seems stronger than the last time we see him. Two, in a previous episode Cosma destroys the moon, and when seeing this happen, The Sun (who's actually a sentient hero named Cool Sun) dips in fear. What should be noted, the villains acknowledge that POINT has weapons that far surpass the villains, and make all of them, including Cosma, panic in fear. Why does this matter? Because P.K.O (T.K.O and K.O in perfect sync, the precursor to M.K.O) defeated POINT's most powerful weapon, the Disempower Ray. Furthermore, it should be noted that while they are sharing the same body, T.K.O power is doing the heavy lifting, and given that he is the strongest character on Earth, it gives credence to this feat.
Finally, in a previous episode, Boxman is sent flying into the Sun. He actually stays in the sun for quite awhile too, a whole season changes before he returns, he’s actually seen being blasted by the sun back to Earth, after realizing he’s been there for awhile. While it’s unsure if Dendy, Boxman, and the robots survived, as we do not see their fate as everyone is brought back to normal after M.K.O wish, it’s not unlikely that they survived it.
ARE THEY UNIVERSAL?
When it comes to OK KO and potential universe feats, there are few feats we must discuss. While we know the planet, universe, and 4th dimension are saved in the finale, we never see these adventures in full, just brief snippets, so we have no context if M.K.O and friends completed any feats of that scale.
However, a warlock named The Alternate Universe Wizard, states that he’ll create an alternate universe with the wave of his fingers, and does just that. But then later on the same episode, he seems to just use portals to travel between universes, including one where OK KO is just a show, and the characters are actors.
Then in Rippy Roo’s case, (she’s a kangaroo btw) her pouch has an entire galaxy full of stars, and Ian JQ has stated that it’s fourth dimensional. It’s never been described as a portal, and Ripy herself is a quantum physicist, but I can understand if someone didn’t think this was viable.
Finally, Venomous' entire plan is for T.K.O to destroy the universe after the tournament in the final episode, but whether that was through the wish or T.K.O absorbing the glorb tree has never been clarified.
As for the Sonic series, in the beginning of Sonic Prime, Sonic seemingly survives the explosion from the Paradox Prism, which shattered the universe. He even takes it point black, and is fine after the explosion splits reality into five alternate universes. Arguments against this being, that it wasn’t an explosive force, but rather it manipulated space-time and reality.
One could argue that there are multiple pieces of meteorites and other possible elements that look like destroyed remnants of planets, after the Prism explodes. Visually there is the implication of an explosive outburst, characters do get launched when this occurs. Perhaps it could be a result stemming from an explosive force and space-time/reality manipulation, since it shattered the universe and created alternate dimensions with shattered/alternate versions of the cast.
Then again another argument is that this is simply an outlier.That this way above the Base Form Characters field of power, however, in Secret Rings Sonic did defeat the likes Erazor Djin, who could absorb the half of the Arabian Knights, and then there's Master Core, who could create black holes with infinite density.
Overall both series have arguments, so ultimately I choose to leave this up to interpretation.
Verdicts
An Average Person
This matchup was a VERY tough one to call. Both of these fighters had strengths, and especially weaknesses, that could very much be exploited. To narrow this down, I looked at 4 separate categories that generally round out this debate. Strength, Speed, And Abilities .
STRENGTH
Let's start with the big one; Who was stronger. Both TKO and Surge generally scale to the higher ends of their respective series, around the Large Star levels to be exact. But with higher ends, both of them can scale to universe level. While both are up to interpretation, I believe that Surge takes this. While T.K.O has been shown to potentially have the power to destroy the universe, according to Professor Venomous, it isn’t stated how or within a time frame, so it is VERY subjective.
Surge meanwhile has better arguments for universal scaling, remember; Sonic tanked the Paradox Prism in BASE form, and Surge is very much on the same level as Base Sonic, or even above.
Surge takes this category.
SPEED
But Speed, surprisingly, is a very different story, which might come as a shock given how Surge is known to keep up with Sonic. Yk- the fastest thing alive. You see- Surge at her peak, can likely scale to Sonic’s victory over Emerl, who was empowered by the final egg blaster, reaching about 18 billion times faster than light as stated previously. You might think this would give Surge the advantage here, but surprisingly; NO!
T.K.O can scale to Garnet thanks to Crossover Nexus. Who intercepted Steven mid warp travel, a feat like that likely rounds out to 5.8 Trillion FTL! Way higher than the final egg blaster's best showing.
T.K.O, surprisingly takes speed.
Abilities
Now time for the last category, just how their abilities can come into play, and how they can outplay each other. And frankly, this is where this back and forth falters. While Surge is a great foe, she has no counter to T.K.O’s various power nullification abilities. Remember; Surge Surge possesses a multitude of powers derived from Power Cores, which are described as Energy sources for things like Badniks, so they are VERY similar to Glorbs. Given how TKO can absorb glorbs. He can likely absorb Surge's power for himself, and there's nothing stating that he cannot steal from those more powerful than him.
Even if he can’t absorb Surge’s power, TKO’s energy domes and blasts can nullify Surge’s powers either way. And this barely even scratches the surface considering things like glorbs being the source of Toon Force and what not.
TKO takes the final category and this debate, at least in my opinion.
Surge was no pushover, and she could have definitely won this fight given different circumstances, but TKO’s superior speed and powers made this fight his.
I guess you could say in this lightning fast battle, it was going to only end one way. IN A TKO!
The winner is; TKO
simonsea102004
This was a surprisingly close fight. Both combatants had many traits similar to them, and yet, many more that were different. There’s a lot to cover for these two copycat combatants, so let’s break this down into 4 categories that are most well-suited for this fight: Strength, Speed, and Powers.
STRENGTH
Both Surge and TKO and Surge are incredibly strong fighters. TKO being able to take down Boxmore, Giant Darrel, and The SUN! While Surge was able to hold her own against heavy hitters like Blaze, Metal Sonic, and even the Blue Blur himself.
According to Professor Venomous, TKO was stated to be able to destroy the universe, which would include places like Rippy Roo’s fourth dimensional pocket dimension, but we don’t really get to know the methods of how TKO would be able to do so, making this point a tad iffy.
Meanwhile, Surge’s scaling should be able to get her up to Sonic’s level, who took the Paradox Prism’s explosion, a literal universe-shattering event, and he came out relatively unharmed.
SURGE takes the edge in Strength
SPEED
But as Goku once said, “Strength isn’t the only thing that matters.” Let’s talk Speed. Surge herself boasted to Sonic in Issue 50 of the IDW comics that he “couldn’t keep up with her Speed of Light”, but Ian Flynn, the writer of the IDW comic, confirmed that she’s not that fast, just “arrogant.” Even if we scaled her to Sonic, she should be able to reach speeds from 10xFTL (Sonic Unleashed SPD meter) to 60 billion x FTL (vs a Final Egg Blaster powered Emerl). But even with that, she’s “Just Too Slow.”
Meanwhile, TKO, through his scaling with K.O. should be able to keep up with characters like Garnet, who can react to Warp Travel, which should be 5.8 Trillion x FTL.
TKO takes the edge in Speed.
POWERS
Now let’s look at the final category: Powers. Now this is when the tables turn. The big thing here is that Surge’s plethora of abilities stem from Power Cores, items that react as power sources for machines like the Badniks, just like Glorbs. While Surge’s Dynamo Cage can absorb energy from any object, even living things like the Wisps, it has been overloaded before, and can be destroyed, leaving her power absorption null and void. Meanwhile, TKO’s absorption is all natural, and he could just take all her power away, as well as any stolen power from him.
Even if he couldn’t take Surge’s power, TKO would still be able to just shut down her powers altogether with his nullification powers, leaving her defenseless to any of his other attacks. And while Surge’s healing factor is pretty handy, it doesn’t make her invincible. The Glorbs’ Toon Force, meanwhile, has allowed people to come back from complete disintegration.
So with that, TKO takes the final edge in Powers.
Now Surge is not someone to scoff at. Her wit, arsenal, and superior strength would give her opponent the biggest fight of his life, but TKO’s speed and overall hax earned him the win.
In this Ten out of Tenrec battle, Surge lost by TKO!
The winner is TKO!
Soup
Funny. The first blog I ever worked on, even before Greg vs Nate, was a K.O blog. And it’s nice to give one again. Don’t worry, I won’t plug my stuff this time. I was 14.
But I won’t beat around the bush. Surge can absolutely pressure T.K.O. from multiple angles. She can amp herself, drain energy, fight aggressively, and potentially overwhelm him if he fights stupidly. The issue is that T.K.O.’s kit is basically a Surge counterpick. Energy absorption makes her electricity way less reliable, and power nullification wrecks a lot of her best win conditions outright.
Now, this could be slightly negated if Surge took stats comfortably. Except, on most reasonable ends, these two are pretty comparable. Surge’s higher ends are honestly more believable than T.K.O.’s, but they are still pretty iffy, and she is never really taking speed here.
I’ll give her one thing, though. She definitely takes skill. I also buy her ragebaiting T.K.O. way more than the opposite. But even then, the matchup is just cruel to her. His counters almost seem specifically tailored to ruin her day.
I guess Surge-
Actually, I’m sure everyone else is going to do a TKO pun. Hmm…
I guess TKO’s superior powerset and greater speed turned this surge into a sag!
The winner is TKO!
Conclusion
T.K.O
Advantages:
Faster
Could potentially match Surge in strength depending on interpretation
Surge can’t really put him down due to Toon Force
Disempowerment Powers could take Surge out
Disadvantages:
Could be weaker than Surge depending on interpretation
Not as skilled
Both have anger issues, but T.K.O is definitely worst
His show was cancelled
Surge
Advantages:
At worst matches T.K.O in strength
At best is stronger than T.K.O
More skilled
More experienced
Disadvantage:
Has no real way to put T.K.O down for good
T.K.O is faster
T.K.O Disempowerment Powers can take Surge down
Winner
OK KO Matchups I like
This is my favorite option for Nicole. Nicole vs Chichi is great, and while it’s not my favorite for either, I think Nicole vs Benson is good too, though I do think it leans more on contrast than similarities, but I think it can work. But Nicole vs Carol hit’s on the themes I like, while also having good animation potential, like how they're both martial artists.
I like it because it vibes, has animation potential, and doesn’t require non-canon Super Forms to make it work.
This one is a classic, it’s fun, pure and simple, I don't have much more I can say on it.
Anyways, I know I said Donnie vs Shuri was the next time, but I have to rethink how I want to go about it, on top of having in real life stuff I need to work on, and I want that blog to be the best it can be so I’m putting it on hold right now, while I do other ones I know I can do right now.
Next Time
Let me know if you want to join to help with research, I’d really appreciate it.
-007.jpg){kind=link}
-017.jpg){kind=link}
-014.jpg){kind=link}
---0015.jpg){kind=link}
-016.jpg){kind=link}
No comments:
Post a Comment